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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Anna Marie, nice to meet you! Twenty years is a long time. I wonder if you've adopted the British accent :-)

Cultural shock/clashes/differences can be frustrating at first but over time, they become channels through which we learn about ourselves, our worldviews and assumptions. The beauty of it all, is that can be an immigrant and a proud life-long student!

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David Roberts's avatar

This is the first time in my life that the notion of leaving the US has even entered my mind. It's a fantasy because my entire family is in NYC. But that I thought about it says a lot.

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Lily Pond's avatar

I understand that having this thought enter your mind is saying a lot in the context of your life!

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John Howard's avatar

I left the U.S. with family some 15+ years ago; there were some genuinely existential issues around access to healthcare that drove the decision to move. I've written about some of the issues that are peripheral to this singular issue (https://leavingamerica.substack.com/), but it still feels somewhat too personal to me to write in detail about our core concerns, other than to highlight some the difficulties with America's industrial approach to healthcare delivery and funding.

Your points about privilege are well taken. I've always considered myself and my family to have been privileged to be able to both move and to continue to work in our chosen professional fields. And now, we are privileged to have the choice to live in a beautiful area with access to essential services, including excellent affordable healthcare--an issue which has only become more critical to us over the course of time.

I'm sympathetic to those in the U.S. how are now considering their options. As you say, it's not easy and part of that is becoming a perpetual outsider, regardless of one's desire to integrate linguistically and culturally. It's good to read commentary that is grounded and experienced, with sound perspectives, thank you; some of the other commentators on social media lack such awareness.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi John, thanks so much for sharing one of the reasons that led you to move abroad. I can totally understand that because healthcare here is a mess and a racket. It's unbearable.

To be able to continue working in your chosen professionals and live in an area with great services and healthcare sounds like a dream to many Americans today.

I'm glad to learn that you actively engage with your community and integrate with it in different ways. But the feeling of being a perpetual outsider is real. It's how I've lived all of my life.

I'm thankful for your time and for appreciating the nature of my commentary.

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Eliza Anderson's avatar

The idea that people make such harrowing journeys to the US to taste freedom and now find that this freedom is crumbling to nothing, is so devastating. As critical as I’ve always been here, now I’m wondering how school teachers are handling the teaching of American history, a govt of checks and balances, of our nation of immigrants? The waves of grief that this is happening. That the years, a lifetime, of fighting to prevent it are washing away with all this dismantling. It’s too much. I feel so deeply embarrassed. I’ve protested with a handmade sign that reads, The Whole World is Watching. It cuts in so many ways.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Eliza, thank you for your kind comment. The questions you asked are heart-wrenching ones that we should've have to ask in the first place. The dignity and pride in the diversity that makes up our nation has been forced out of our education system and public sphere. The grief that you talked about is profound and bottomless. I wrote about it from my immigrant's perspective here: https://lilypond.substack.com/p/an-immigrants-grief

It really is too much, along with all the destruction and abuse.

I appreciate your empathy 💕... we're in it together!

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Janisse Ray's avatar

thank you.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Thank you for reading, Janisse!

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Johanna van Zanten's avatar

I know what the guest of your post means. I have similar experiences, with the difference that I am a European immigrant, by way of becomng a Canadian citizen, now living much of my time in Mexico. Yes, many more Americans seem to flock to my Mexican location, not an improvement. My post on babyboomerwrites on Wordpress in included below.

BLINDED BY IGNORANCE

I live part of the year in an overwintering enclave, a Mexican village, that was overrun by foreigners from the USA starting in the sixties, and cumulated to match its original Mexican population at present.

I try to live in peace with everyone, but it is becoming harder as the foreigners are becoming ever more obnoxious, insisting on changing the local culture to their tastes.

It seems that their sense of propriety is insulted and they really are annoyed by garbage, so it seems that’s where they show up most visibly.

The municipal (Delegacion Chapala) garbage run starts from the Malecón at 7 a.m., to finish by 10 a.m. Residents are asked NOT to place household garbage by the streetside after that. Green waste collection will commence afterwards on designated days for corresponding zones.

Recycling Depot of Lakeside Chapala is an ongoing recycling program in the Municipality of Chapala, staffed by community volunteers sorting plastic, glass, tin, aluminium & cardboard for resale. All proceeds are invested into the community with emphasis on public recreation areas benefiting local children. Volunteers of all ages are welcome Monday through Saturday, 9 am to 2 pm. If one has a car, dropping off your recyclables could help keep the community clean and keep those out of the general household garbage, but I know very few foreigners or locals who actually do that.

I could live with the installation of wire containers for recycling by another group of volunteers: the (American) Democrats Abroad, which placed those around town in neighbourhoods where foreigners predominantly live. The emptying of these containers leaves to be desired, and often the cannisters are used to dump full garbage bags.

The failure to properly include (and listen) to the local daily garbage collection services of the municipality prevented a wholesale buying into these cannisters to improve the recycling around town. Would it not be more useful to work together and device a more useful schedule and system together?

The Mexican community is largely an eating-out society and that demands many one-time-use of containers, and so: garbage. The street stands collect these when food is eaten at the stand, but lots is still “lost” on the way around town. If you see a garbage can, use it and help keep the town clean.

I see more English-language used in the names of restaurants, even if owned and run by locals, and increasingly, American franchises establish themselves in town and surrounding areas, most recently Popye Chicken. Walmart has been here for years. In Quebecq, the French protect the local language by insisting that French names are used on the store fronts and are in the biggest font. To live there comfortably, you better speak also French. It may stimulate Americans to learn the language of the country by less Mexican accommodation to the American unwillingness to learn a second language.

Most foreigners do not begin their request for service with Spanish in any store or restaurant, as they expect to be served in their own language. To me, coming from Europe, that attitude is very ethnocentric and presumptuous, and demonstrates little respect to the guest country.

That is exactly the core of the problem, as I see it: Americans (and other foreigners) seeing Mexico as a playground just for them, and the locals are there just for them to please them and earn their (low) wages by serving them, the tourists. It shows a limited experience in the world and a vast selfishness that bothers me, a very narrow focus, especially of those that have relocated and live here for most of the year.

This week we have seen that attitude displayed in the American president, who sees every country exclusively in terms of resorts and of commercial value, and how he could exploit it for his own uses. He expects everybody to serve him. He does not speak any other languages. He eats like a Midwesterner, has no gourmet tastes, egocentric in the extreme, is clueless in social graces and has no capacity for grace or humanity. I see those characteristics often displayed here in my Mexican town in various interactions with the locals at various levels of intensity.

Today, I saw an example of this unworldly, vacuous, and to me insulting conduct because it doesn’t acknowledge the person in front of you—in extreme form. I was at the art market at the gringo club, a society established to make foreigners more comfortable with a variety of services. As a vender for the first time, I shared my table with two local venders, situated in a part of the garden that also contained the ATM machine. At some point in the morning, the money had run out.

Around lunch time, two guards from a service refilled the machine with cash. These were robust guys, dressed in uniform and armed. While one refilled the machine, the other stood on guard carrying a large automatic sort of a rifle half his size, hard to miss, and faced the public. The guys do not interact. I saw these armed men around town, with their armoured truck parked close by. You let them do their job and avoid them. People avoid them.

Not today. This elderly American woman, maybe late sixties, white hair, friendly round face, dressed in a typical elderly summer dress sidled up to the guard and started talking to him. This was a dark-haired, dark skinned Mexican and he did not talk, did not smile, did not make eye contact: he was on guard.

The woman kept chattering in English. She had no clue, didn’t pick up any of the environmental or body cues, oblivious to the world around her.

She tried hard to engage him. At one point I heard her ask, “Are you also standing in line for the money machine?” He did not give an inch.

About 4 meters away from the scene, I couldn’t stand it. I called out, “Lady, this man is doing his job.” No response, she kept chattering at him. The vendor next to me laughed, embarrassed for her and looked flabbergasted. I looked back at her, and shrugged about so much foolishness.

Finally, the man in the booth by the entrance, a greeter and part of the organization, saw what was happening and gently turned the woman away from the ATM, explaining what she was apparently not seeing by herself, keeping her with him at the hosting booth, until the guards were finished.

Maybe she was used to seeing Mexican men that heavily armed, who knows. It was very hard to miss it in this environment of art, elderly gringos and nicely dressed vendors.

After the men left, and she got money out of the machine, she came to chat to our table. She dropped some empty “nice” comments and moved on by.

She was apparently not in our world.

From the staff person, who was working the night before at the Concert in the Park at a aconecrt from an Abba tribute band, I heard that at that concert some Americans had attended wearing a MAGA hat. They were perceived as trying to stir up shit, or at least a reaction from other attendants.

The staff asked them to take their hats off.

They refused. A band member walked off the stage. Others protested and left. It all ended abrupt and the concert was a debacle.

I guess the MAGA hat wearers had not heard about the Trump tariff scare that set the continent on edge.

Or they made a point that they had heard, and that they were part of the powerful in the world dominating Mexico (and Canada).

How utterly insulting and what dreadful behaviours. Is this what their leader inspired in them? I am not surprised. Maybe Mexico should close their borders to Americans without a permit.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Johanna, thank you for sharing your observations as a European-Canadian in Mexico. The kind of ignorant, insulting and entitled behavior that some Americans display overseas makes me cringe. I feel bad that the gentle people in many of the popular places Americans visit have to put up with such behavior. And of course, the worst of them is Donald Trump. What a disgrace and embarrassment! I second your suggestion for Mexico to close its borders to Americans without a permit.

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Chris Tharp's avatar

Enjoying a cheap massage isn't "colonialism" ffs.

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Jen Phillips April's avatar

Every time I witness such cringy behavior, I physically wince and am embarrassed to be from the US. I mean, before the current debacle in the WH, now there’s a permanent stain on the my country. I’m hope the red hat wearers were made uncomfortable. Unfortunately, most of them seem to lack self awareness.

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Cassandra Tresl's avatar

Well said, Lily! I recently reflected on a similar topic - how many Americans seem unable to stop being 'American' when they move to Italy, expecting 365 days of ~la dolce vita~

I personally refrain from calling our family 'expats.' While we're originally American, the truth is, we are foreigners and immigrants. We're fortunate to have been embraced by our new community, though that's not always the case for everyone.

However, I make a conscious effort to adapt to the new life I've chosen, rather than expecting our new world (Italy) to adapt to me. So, as another wave of Americans plans their potential exit, I hope it's those who understand what they are truly leaving behind.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Cassandra, thank you for sharing your personal experience and observations as an immigrant in Italy. I appreciate your respectful and humble attitude and your effort in adapting to your host country rather than expecting it to adapt to you.

I hope that this article gets shared widely and inspire reflections in those who are looking to move abroad.

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Paulette Bodeman's avatar

I considered leaving the U.S. with my family 15 years ago, and that desire to escape has resurfaced strongly. However, fleeing isn't always the solution; we must think clearly about the reasons, methods, and destinations. Your essay highlights several essential points to consider.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Paulette, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you that fleeing isn't always the solution. It can't guarantee a better life and there are big risks involved. Being well informed of the logistics is just one of the important things to consider. How a person adapts to life in the new country--practically, psychologically and emotionally, is often an overlooked area when making a decision to move.

Also, in my long journey of migrations, I realized one important thing: Wherever you move, there you are. Moving may help us avoid systemic issues that limit our life, but it cannot get rid of our unhealed wounds and inner demons. We must come face to face to them one day.

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An Everyday Thinker's avatar

What a fantastic article!

I’m glad to discover you on Substack. Last year I married, and moved to Romania to be part of my wife’s family. Other than learning the language - which I admit being the hardest mission I ever attempted - learning how to live with three women…new wife, but also one twin sister, and mother - has been difficult. But I will tell you…front-of-mind for me has always been to conduct myself with the maximum amount of respect, humility and gratitude. To learn and follow the cultural norms and expectations here. To be fully aware things are different, to remember how crucial perceptions are and avoid causing a negative one with anyone, to listen, listen, listen more/talk less, to keep my opinions private, and to learn…learn…learn. I KNOW I am a guest here. I appreciate the opportunity to learn an entirely new life style. Nearly everything is different. I hope I can contribute to the community somehow. To improve something that helps others here. I’m doing my best.

Thank you for your thoughts and insights.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi M Herman, I'm glad you're here! I read your story with great interest. It sounds like you've been adapting to the country of your wife beautifully, with the great attitude of a student eager to learn. You mentioned your awareness of being a "guest" in Romania. That's lovely. Aren't we all guests here on Earth? If we could all maintain that mentality, we will be more likely to live respectfully with one another in harmony, and to protect Mother Earth at the same time.

I hope that you will continue to integrate into your adopted country, enjoy your community and one day, be able to give back.

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jj's avatar

Speaking for all of us "who can't hide our own Easter Eggs..." Truly poignant, laughing through my tears.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi John Grant, I'm not sure if I understood your comment. Would you mind elaborating what you meant?

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jj's avatar

Referring to those who will participate in the hunt, "hiding" eggs from themselves, then feeling a sense of great accomplishment upon "finding" them, bewildered that others are not impressed by their accomplishment.

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Kaarin Marx Smith's avatar

Every once in a while there is an essay that makes me question my assumptions -- makes me squirm a bit. Yours was that essay. Thank you. I am one of those Americans who has been thinking of leaving the country at least for a few years -- Thailand, Spain, Sweden (my mom was Swedish) -- all those places have been on the table. I've traveled extensively and for long periods and have always considered myself a respectful visitor. It wasn't until I read your latest piece that I realized how seamlessly my experiences and desire to flee fit into the mold of neocolonialism. Ugh. I'll definitely have to rethink my motivations and check my privilege.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hej Kaarin! I appreciate your comment very much, and feel honored that my essay inspired you to rethink your assumptions. From what you share, I get the impression that you've been a conscientious and respectful tourist around the world. It would be great if more American tourists were like you.

Settling in a less economically developed country presents a different kind of dynamics. I'm glad you'll be rethinking your motivations and checking your privilege.

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William A. Finnegan's avatar

I have to admit, that's why I liked the piece too. "It wasn't until I read your latest piece that I realized how seamlessly my experiences and desire to flee fit into the mold of neocolonialism." - That's partly why I thought it was important to share at TLM. :)

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Lily Pond's avatar

I appreciate your willingness and humility to challenge your own assumptions, and to open up the space for me to share my perspectives on your publication. I find myself constantly being challenged in a healthy way when spending time on The Long Memo.

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Yi Xue's avatar

Neocolonialism, well defined sister!

At one point in my career, I almost became an “expat” and now the word makes me cringe. At one point in my life, “freedom” was what I chased after, now it makes me contemplate what it really means.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Yi, thank you for response to my essay! I'm very curious to hear about your experience of almost becoming an expat. Did your company want to send you overseas? And why does the word make you cringe now? How about the "freedom" that you chased after back then?

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Yi Xue's avatar

These two questions require thoughtful long answers. 😊 I will think about them while on vacation and come back to them later!

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Lily Pond's avatar

Thanks for giving these some thoughts. I look forward to hearing from you again, and enjoy your upcoming vacation!

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Syngle Economycs's avatar

You capture the sentiments so well. I agree that it's neo colonialism and more people should be aware of that. When it comes to Americans moving abroad, I cringe because it's impossible to leave the American privilege behind.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Syngle Economycs, thank you for your comment. It is indeed very difficult to lave the American privilege behind. I admit that when I moved back to Hong Kong after having become an American citizen for some years, I also brought a privileged attitude with me. Now I cringe at my own former behavior! That's why I can speak of it both from an outsider's and an insider's point of view, and hope that Americans abroad can reflect on and check their privilege more consciously.

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Keith Christiansen's avatar

Just a fantastic summary of so many issues at once. Having worked with immigrant families in the US for so many years as a teacher and having written about the incredible jounreys of immigrants to the US from the Darien Gap on up to various cities of the US, these people have earned the right to be respected there.

In my own writing, I try to talk about the realities of moving abroad for Americans, or at least for me. This place was not built with me in mind. It was working before I showed up and will continue to do so. It’s on me to learn and adjust to this place if I am to be at home here. I am trying to understand the culture.

There’s so much in the American conversation about “just leaving,” but little about what happens after—the long-term emotional and cultural shifts, the bureaucracy, the unexpected ways a new place shapes you (and the ways it doesn’t).

And there are people who want to ignore all of that, to try and create their own lives somewhere else, but maybe just cheaper.

I really appreciate your insights about the privilege of being an “expat” versus an “immigrant.” It’s something I think about often, especially in France, where even as a foreigner with advantages, you’re still negotiating a system that wasn’t built with you in mind. It does matter how we move through these spaces. We are guests. Act accordingly.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Bonjour! Thank you for stopping and sharing your interesting stories and perspective. I would love to read more about the immigrant families you have worked with before. I agree with you, that they have earned their right to be respected in the U.S. Unfortunately, the current administration's policy of hate has made life infinitely worse for immigrants, illegal or not.

I love what you wrote here: "There’s so much in the American conversation about 'just leaving,' but little about what happens after—the long-term emotional and cultural shifts, the bureaucracy, the unexpected ways a new place shapes you (and the ways it doesn’t)."

100% true!

And this: "We are guests. Act accordingly."

I'm going to read more about your life in France soon. I have a lifelong love for the country and its culture. In fact, I had a botched attempt to move to France as a young art student--my parents refused to let me go to Paris coz they saw a documentary of how Hong Kong students struggle with poverty while studying there. All these decades after, I still harbor a dream to move there.

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Keith Christiansen's avatar

France is complicated, but I think that anywhere is once you start to explore it more. I think that one of the aspects I like about france is that it does, in fact, allow you to explore and to appreciate the culture, even if you are put into a certain category. As an immigrant, that is kind of what I expect.

I taught in NYC for 20 years as an ESL teacher, making me an advocate for my students and their families, to varying degrees of success. Now, I write about politics and economics in the Americas (mostly outside of the US), which naturally brings migration into the conversation.

As for your dreams of France, I would only say that there are many aspects of France and as my wife and I frequently say, France is not Paris, and Paris is not France (many people say this), but then our smaller city is not Paris for sure, but has its charms and merits.

I'd love to know what you think of any of my writing. I'm looking forward to your next piece!

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Lily Pond's avatar

Thank you for introducing me to the work that you did previously in NYC. I've lived there for many years and had always felt home there thanks to its "melting pot" culture (no one ever talks about the "melting pot" anymore nowadays).

I think Paris is different from the rest of France perhaps much the same way as NYC is different from the rest of the U.S. I've traveled to Provence and Breton previously and saw the huge differences. I'm hoping to travel more in France to see different parts of the country and to practice my French :-)

For now, I will visit France through your writing, and I'll share with you my thoughts when I do.

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Kaila Krayewski's avatar

Thank you for sharing this well researched and written post with us, Lily. I really appreciate your advice from experience. It's really interesting to hear things coming from the perspective of a perpetual immigrant as you say it! So sorry to hear about your experience always being treated as a second-class citizen.

I really enjoyed all the references to other helpful articles about the living abroad lifestyle, too.

Also, sounds like it's a very positive thing that your ex is your ex. ❤️✨

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Kaila, thanks so much for spending time with my essay and for sharing this kind comment. I hope some of the things covered here are useful to you.

Indeed, it's a positive thing that my ex is an ex now! 😅

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Liza Debevec's avatar

Hi Lily,

Very insightful post! Before I say anything else, I should mention that I’m not American—I’m from Slovenia.

I recently came across the term ‘geo-arbitrage’ in a post by a Canadian who, along with her husband, retired at 33. She wrote about how they maximize their investments by living in lower-cost locations. She even mentioned wanting to further increase their income from financial investments so they could afford to travel with hired help to care for their small children and stay in more upscale Airbnbs.

I do think it’s important to discuss the issue of cheap labor in these contexts. Having lived and worked as an expat in Ethiopia for ten years—first in a low-paying academic job and later in a much higher-paying international development role—I also hired household help. I made an effort to pay them above the local rates (while still finding it very affordable) and to treat them with dignity and respect, including offering paid leave and fair working conditions.

One thing I learned in Ethiopia—and before that in Burkina Faso—is that hiring help is not exclusive to expats. Anyone who can afford it does so. My cleaning lady, for example, had a maid of her own, whom she paid so little that it broke my heart. The same was true for many of my Ethiopian colleagues and friends. In fact, the treatment of domestic workers by local employers was often quite harsh.

This isn’t to excuse expats’ reliance on cheap labor, but based on my nearly 20 years of work and travel across Africa, I’ve observed that many locals actively prefer working for expats because the pay and conditions tend to be better. I also want to add that, being a social anthropologist, during my time in Ethiopia and Burkina Faso, I made the effort to learn the local language and understand social norms. I believe that integrating into the culture and respecting local ways of life is essential when living in another country.

At the same time, it’s just as important to maintain a critical perspective. Local customs, including labor practices, are shaped by complex histories and power dynamics, and they don’t always align with principles of fairness or dignity. Respect for culture should go hand in hand with thoughtful reflection and, where possible, a commitment to ethical engagement.

On a different note, during my 2.5 years in Stockholm, I also saw the opposite of ‘lagom’ or ‘jantelagen’. While Sweden is often associated with modesty and balance, I witnessed excessive consumption, people flaunting their wealth, and even young people pouring champagne down the drain just because they could. I even saw people wearing ‘Fuck Jante’ T-shirts, openly rejecting the cultural norm of humility. It was a stark contrast to the image of Swedish restraint that many outsiders hold.

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Liza, nice to meet you! Your international experience is very interesting to me. I really appreciate the insights you shared, especially this: "Local customs, including labor practices, are shaped by complex histories and power dynamics, and they don’t always align with principles of fairness or dignity. Respect for culture should go hand in hand with thoughtful reflection and, where possible, a commitment to ethical engagement."

I am aware of the dynamics you mentioned. Hong Kong, my hometown, has its own labor practices that I personally consider unethical, but it's practiced widely. Most people in the middle-class and above hire domestic workers from other Asian developing nations, including the Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand. It was the first form of "geo-arbitrage" that I witnessed but I didn't have the word for it. It is their cheap labor that has lied at the foundation of Hong Kong's economic growth for decades. It also contributed partly to gender equality in the workplace--coz the childcare / eldercare burden is easily transferred from women to the domestic workers. Their working conditions are extremely harsh, salaries low but enough to send some back to their families. I'm sure that some folks treat them better than others, but most people would just abide by the minimum required by law.

So, yes, this is to say that I can understand the complex issues involved in geo-arbitrage, which is a phenomenon born out of power imbalances in the world as well as behavior incentives based on relative incomes. Everyone must decide how they want to approach this based on their own internal moral compass.

It's interesting what's happening to some of the younger people in Sweden as you described. I was there 2001-2006 so this must be a new phenomenon.

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Liza Debevec's avatar

Thank you, Lily, for your detailed response. I had a colleague in grad school whose PhD focused on Philippine maids in Hong Kong. I found that in the recent Amazon series Expats, they were portrayed quite well—I wonder if you found it accurately done. And regarding Sweden, yes I was there from 2020-2022, so more recently than you. The difference in experience could be related to that.

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Lily Pond's avatar

It's fascinating your colleague worked on this subject for her PhD thesis. I have watched only the first episode of "Expats" but couldn't go on with it due to the acting and weird storytelling. But it might be a good "study material" for me to see if the portrayal is accurate.

Ah, I see that you were in Sweden much more recently than I had been, and the young people you encountered could very well be the next generation of the folks I saw 😀.

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